A dear friend and my go-to person for everything Poodle posted this in our FB Poodle group. I hope the video link works.
Here are her comments on the videos:

Just wanted to share videos I saw recently of this lovely Moyen Poodle in Slovakia. He is 39cm which equals around 15.4"

Great dog, I'd love to have one like him (look at his cute attitude!) but I also want people to see what size real European Moyens actually are. In type, temperament, and health issues, Moyens are the same variety as our US Miniatures.

Moyen seems to be the new breeding buzz word and people are using it for all manner of dogs that they are churning out. Two days ago, I saw someone offering a Toy stud for use as a "moyen" breeding dog and I saw another breeder advertising a litter of regular Standards as moyens.

Buyer beware.

Me again.

"Moyen" Poodles are NOT created by breeding a Standard Poodle with a Miniature or Toy Poodle.

However, this is what you are getting with most American bred "Moyen" Poodles, including those used by doodle breeders.
It's important to be aware that the temperaments and genetics of Standard Poodles are different from those of Miniatures, and both are different from those of Toys. There are genetic diseases that run in Standards but not in the smaller size Poodles, and vice versa. When you mix size lines, you create lines that can potentially have ALL of the genetic diseases that all three size Poodles can carry. 

It is a very dangerous and foolish thing to do. 
Before buying a doodle puppy who has a "Moyen" parent, I would ask to see the pedigree. AKC registrations include the dog's size classification (Standard, Miniature, Toy abbreviated as S, M or T) and it will be easy to know if this "Moyen" is indeed the product of the breeding of two different size Poodles.
If that is the case, and you still want to buy the puppy, you need to check the health clearances very carefully for all of the genetic diseases known to run in both sizes. 



And here's a photo:

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  • I'm putting this here for future reference. It's a PCA article on why Standards and Miniatures are genetically different and should not be interbred.

    • Are there two articles?  I read the study but not why they should not be bred- maybe I missed the conclusions???

    • No, there's just one article. It doesn't say straight out "you should not interbreed the two varieties". I guess that's more of an inference from the info on the genetic diferences, and how interbeeeding doesn't improve the genetic health issues. 

    • Thanks.  I'll re-read it more carefully.

  • That doesn't surprise me a bit. 

  • I don't get it either, but I can tell you it didn't come from the Poodle side, lol.
    I think a lot of people don't meet their dogs' fathers. I think some don't even meet the mother; a LOT of doodle breeders ship puppies sight unseen. If you don't meet the parents, you have no way of knowing how big they really are, or even who they really are, unless (as in Jasper's case) they are known champions you can view online and you have a registered pedigree (recorded in a searchable database)  so that you know that the dog you're being shown is actually the one who sired the litter, lol.

    • I mean I'd like to think that the number of breeders who try to "con" people is much smaller than the ones who are just doing what they say they are doing... regardless of proper pedigrees etc. that they are using the sires they say they are using.  For sure there will always be some who do shady things though.

      I think if you find a breeder who does all the paperwork/checks/testing you'd expect then they've earned a bit of trust.

      Unfortunately the vast majority of people just buy doodles from whoever so who knows what they are getting.

  • I love these poodle faces. I think my son’s Babette also has a beautiful face. These make me want a poodle, many other poodles’ faces do not. Babette is a standard and is really tall. We all thought she’d be shorter so every time I see her I’m surprised all over again. 

    • Most well-bred Standards are tall, especially the males. But most also weigh less than you might think. A well-bred Standard Poodle over 60 lbs is pretty rare, even the tall ones. I'm always flabbergasted when I see someone say that their doodle's Poodle parent weighed 80 lbs! I can't even imagine what kind of breeding could be behind that.

    • That was Rosco's dad: 28" and 80# -- Not knowing a ton back then, I LOVED that because I wanted a large dog.  I like big dogs and I cannot lie.

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